Mouthpiece Safari's - Why?

[Dennis Clouse]

Some of us are lead to the trough, and others of us pick up the scent and partake. What do you play? And Why?

My first M/P was probably a101/2 C Bach. It was one of the ones in Dad's trumpet case, that my older brother wasn't using, (there were only two). The other one was a Buescher, about the same in inside diameter, but shallower.
After going through Jr. Hi. as the first chair player went on to High School, where there were alot of really good trumpet players. I thought it was time to find a private teacher. He was an old school symphany player who gave me a Bach 1 (no letter). He said that was the truth, the light, and the way to becoming a great player. As I remember it I stuck with it for a while, but soon realized that I was working really hard for what I wanted. Smaller, shallower, large hole, small hole pieces were all included in what followed. I played 3's 6's (Bachs) and probably came back to the 101/2. There are a bunch since then, but now have been playing Warburton's WCC. This has made the job much easier, and as for sound, I haven't noticed a great difference! All through school guys always told me that I played too softly. I couldn't play loud enough! Now, I'm told I play too loud! I really have to whisper into this thing to achive ppp. This has made the experience worthwhile in achiving the control needed to play in the upper registar at ppp. I think I've found what I need in my M/P.

[Dave Kalinoff]

I think due to our individual playing styles, unique body/lip type, and our ever changing bodies we could be on a perpetual mouthpiece safari if we are not careful.

I have found over the years that the equipment I use is getting closer together in size. For Legit and lead, the size disparity is gradually going away. I started this direction after seeking advice from some very knowledgeable players and it has worked.

Who knows, maybe in another year or two, my needs will have changed and I'll go looking for another mouthpiece.

[Blaine Kelley]

Safari indeed! I started with a 5C and used it through 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grades. Started lessons in 6th grade with a high school senior who frigthened me with stories about his instructor who would 'hit him with a ruler when he missed a lick. After 1 year he was ready to leave town for college but referred me to his instructor. I was terrified. That instructor was awesome and not at all like 'reported'. He moved me into a Bach 3C as a freshman in high school. Loved it at first, but then went into the 'new mouthpiece slump' as my chops got use to the new piece. Being a symphony player, he also stated that he goal was to get 'into' a Bach 1. Sadly, he passed away when I was starting my senior year, and I never moved from the 3C. Then came college, Chase, Maynard, Jet-Tone, Warburton and others. Higher was better, right? Unfortunatley for me, I was never much of a high player, but started my real mouthpiece safari at this time to find the silver bullet answer to my range issues. Ended up with bruised lips, cut lips, and a lot of mouthpieces. Eventually returned to the 3C for legit stuff and found the Schilke 14B, 14B4, and 14A4a good for everything else from jazz band to playing the picc.

Over the years I took some shorter safaris to check out 'new stuff' and see if someone had develoed a new mouthpiece that would magically turn me into the greatest trumpet player that the world had ever known. Then I would return to my standards (3C, 14s) and figured, this is as far as I'll go as a player.

A few years ago, I was surfing the web at lunch (really) and found mouthpieceexpress.com. Some pro players were using some strange looking (bulky) pieces that didn't look like a Bach, and I always liked being different, so I started to think about going on yet another safari. I found Marcinkiewicz and checked over their 'conversion chart' comparing their numbering system to Bach and Schilke. I ordered 3 (signature models like Vizzutti, Shew and Tyzik) to try out. Hated them as they were too shallow and I closed off once I got tired. Sent 'em back and tried some others. I liked the 3/5C and found it had more edge (sound) like the Schilke, but a decent warmth (like the Bach) and I actually could play a few half steps higher. I was elated. Ordered their CH = Concert Hall version of that model, which is bulkier in size/weight, and looks very cool (bonus) and have never gone on another safari!

Maybe that will change as the years go by, but I'm happy with my last safari. Good luck to those who feel the need to go on a safari... it can be a never ending trip if you let it go that far!

[Greg Zent]

I played on a Benge 7C throughout high school, college and years after that.

When I was in my early 30's I got some advice from a symphony player and instructor in Texas who gave me the bigger is better talk and convinced me to try a bigger mouthpiece. I ended up getting a Bach 1.5C Megatone (a more appropriate name would be Mega-Crap, IMO).

Anyway, I was looking for a darker and fuller tone and bought into the big, heavy theory. I did make my tone darker, basically by attenuating the higher overtones - yuk!

When I started playing regularly with a big band in 2001 my director, who happened to be my HS director, suggested I try a new piece to get a more lively (read, not dull) tone. I borrowed a couple briefcases full of pieces that he had and ended up playing on a Schilke 15 because it was the most comfortable and sounded pretty decent.

As I improved as a player and landed more gigs I needed help in the upper register, like everyone else, right? So, I borrowed his collection again and ended up going to a Warburton 3M with a medium sized backbore.

I stuck with the Warburton for several years, occasionally wanting something better for high notes.

Then, in the fall of 2007 I found the Wedge mouthpieces and think I found something quite wonderful, because my playing really took off when I got my Wedge 1.5C.

I journaled my Wedge experience on another forum:
http://www.virtualtrumpetstudio.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=657&...

Greg

[Greg Zent]

I forgot, I wanted to confirm what Dave K. said and add my thoughts too.

Each person's lips are indeed different and so what works "best" for each person is unique.

Instructors and professors that tell their students they must play with a certain size or brand mouthpiece are really limiting the development and potential of their students, IMO.

I wish I had never bought that large Bach POS because I have real trouble playing on anything smaller than a 3C; I suspect using too large a piece "ruined" my lips for smaller cups.

Greg

[Chuck Willard]

I started out on an Olds 3 in school. After a couple years I switched to a Martin 10. I used this through high school.

After high school while playing professionally, I needed a new horn. A local pro, Burt Rosen gave me a horn to try....it was an MF Horn-ST304 that Maynard had given him. He also gave me a Bill Chase Jet Tone. I told him I could not play on that. He asked if I trusted him, I said yes. He told me to just play that mp for two weeks. I did what he said.

I played the JT Bill Chase for over twenty years and I have a big tone all the down to the F# on the bottom of the horn.

About 5 years ago I needed a new BC mouthpiece but quality control must have been a problem at Jet Tone because I could find two that were the same. I consulted with Bruce Lee at Northern Brass and he recommended a NB 63***, made by GR. It was basically a Jet Tone BC reverse engineered. It was almost perfect.

I had Gary at GR make me one like the 63*** but with the rim .021 wider....PERFECT!

When I switched to my Eclipse MS it was just a bit off, I needed just a little more brightness. I consulted with Bruce Lee again and Brian Scriver at GR, they both recommended my personal GR with the tighter T-72 backbore. Once again the mouthpiece was perfect.

So basicall I have used the same mouthpiece for about30 years.

I have also used a Parduba 3.5 Harry James model when using my original King Silver Flair.

Chuck

[Edwardo]

I find the mpc search a very interesting topic and a common thread to the threads I've read center on the adjustment period one needs for any change to reliably take place. Although, strangely, I played my "lead" piece, a Curry 60M I've been "adjusting to" with a funk band the other day and had some struggles playing next to a real lead player, who was screaming around on a large bore Calicchio and 15B Schilke, the piece I often use for legit, and have used off and on for 30 years. At a rehearsal the next day, I pulled out a similar piece, the Yamaha Shew Jazz, and after making some adjustments and getting a sound in my head I wanted OUT, out popped some fine sounding F's and F#'s. The piece didn't tire me out a lick even after a 3 hour session and my sound wasn't as shrill as the 60M can make me sound.

Sometimes going back to what fits your face and allows more lip to vibrate can be the answer; one has already adjusted to what one knows. More time awaits for a verdict-- big band rehearsal later this week will tell a tale-- but I'm encouraged.

Best,

Ed Mann
www.myspace.com/jazzlips

[Andrew]

I find that trumpet teachers who push large Bach mouthpieces on their students have probably never played jazz: (I have tried a whole bunch of them)
I also played a 7c for years while being under peer pressure in thinking the 7c is a "student" mouthpiece. I think this old way of thinking is utter nonsense. I think the choice is very personal, like shoes, and it may take a while to get the right fit. I think any change should be very gradual and the reason for change should be for a better sound but without robbing your abilities.I blew my chops in college and could not play for 6 months.
I presently play a Bach 6. It sounds bright but less "edgy" than the 7c (when I play it) and my high notes has greatly improved with this and a different horn. Although the mouthpiece is important the horn you use also makes a difference and one should try many out in a store. I was frustrated for many years and thought I just needed to practice harder:"it's the musician that matters, not the equipment" Total B.S.! I also have a 5c that I use with my Bach Mercedes for that old European oom pa brass sound but the 5c seems less stable on some of the high notes. There was also mention of achieving the "dark sound" ; after a lot of experimentation I believe the dark sound only works if you are in a soloist situation. If you are playing next to a tbone it is better to use a horn that is more "lead" high frequency to avoid being shadowed by the tbone's louder "dark" frequencies and finally getting to the point; do not change a mouthpiece that works well for you for a "darker" sound, just stick a sock over the bell. That is my mouthpiece journey (and it still continues as I look at Warburton..)

[Ed Grant]

I sat in on a workshop being given by a guy named Dr. Ed Lewis in Regina, Saskatchewan (where?). He has a few credits to his name, studied in NY, etc. etc. and wrote his doctoral thesis on trumpet players and posture... "what is there that the top players and high-note guys have in common with respect to their posture?" (Wynton, Jon, Wayne, Maynard, etc.) He actually got them to sit down and videotaped them playing some ridiculously difficult and high exercises for extended periods of time. I mention this as a reference to his credentials, not towards the original question.

To that, (the original question), he discussed mouthpiece safaris at length. The gist of his belief is that we initially try something different and if it works we shout "Yahoo" and buy it. After a couple of weeks, however, we start having trouble with the new piece and go back to our old one. YIKES... but now we have trouble on it too so we start the safari. What's happened?

He believes that when we have FULLY ACCLIMATIZED to one piece or another our chops are completely adjusted: muscle where muscle is needed, fat where it isn't. We get to a new piece and all of a sudden, IT DOESN'T FIT so we go back to the old one. BUT... our chops are no longer the same as where they used to be and so we have trouble there too. He says that the best way to get a mouthpiece change (if one really feels the need) is to go to a place where they have a whole slew of them and try them all out, picking the one that seems best.

THEN BUY IT, GO HOME AND HIDE ALL OF THE OLD ONES FOR AT LEAST A MONTH. That should give the chops time to completely acclimatize.

Now, I ain't sayin' that's what happens, but it seems like it makes sense to me.

[Blaine Kelley]

I certainly would drink that cool-aid ... totally agree

[Mark Russo]

Dennis.....

Good thread. I started out on a Warburton 4mc in College and My Teacher got me into Monette..... since then, I've played a Monette B6 then dumped that for a Bach 1-1/2C then dumped that for a Monette B4S, then a B2, then a B2 Prana, then a B4 Prana, FINALLY settling on the B4S6 I have now. The B2 Prana was a great piece for me, but made me tired quicker.

[Jason Parra]

Hi Dennis, nice thread.
I ran the usual gambit myself until I finally found "the one". I started on whatever my Old's Ambassador had in the rental case, then after my dad bought me a Strad 72 my Jr year in HS I played a 7C. When I made it into McDs HS jazz band the other "screamer" guy Mike Bogart was playing Double Cs on a Bach 2C, so I switched to that until college.
Somewhere along the line (I think it was The "Blue Thunder" marching band at Boise State) I came across a Schilke 14a4a---played that until I got really into jazz and switched to using the 13a4a and a Bob Reeves for solo work. The switching was a real pain and I went on a 5 year M.E/Curry/Wick/Stork etc etc Safari that didn't have an end in sight. I finally found the right piece by total accident, I was on a gig with Chuck Findley and we were running this long unison trumpet feature (Dizzyland I think?). Findley had several Marcinkiewicz signature series with him and I tried a few out. I liked his own signature, the Tyzik, and Vizzutti---and played the Vizzuti for a while until I zeroed in on the Marcinkiewicz Candoli.
This is weird too, as the E16 Pete Candoli is a real shallow mouthpiece. It just centered right in, the bite and cushion were perfect for my face and I never really used a lot of pressure anyway. I have played the Candoli for the last 7 years for every style, gig, session or different horn that has come my way. I did have it opened up a hair, and added some mass to it.
I agree with other posts here that the mouthpiece and your face/chops just need to "find each other". It doesn't really matter what brand or size it is, just what works for the player. I remember what a comical and irritating experience I had with the Asymetric Lead 342...I ordered it expecting to shatter every bit of glass in the E. Village....Then to my dismay (and after reading the instructions sideways/upside down etc) I couldn't make a duck fart on the thing no matter where I turned the thick part. I know several players who love them (Nick D on this site) I believe endorses them. So again, I think that the "Shape of the Ship" does matter, but the right "Cushion for your Pushin" is the key ;)-
Cheers,
Jason

[Brian Finigan]

I've been using Najoom mouthpieces for 7-8 years and have tried others but nothing has worked as well for me as Najoom. I use the 3MD, 3MS and 3S and use Warburton backbores. I use the 3MD with a Najoom 117 cornet backbore for my Lawler cornet along with a Wick 3B which gives a softer and more mellow sound. Najoom has a flugelhorn mpc but it doesn't seem to correspond to his #3 series and is made by GR. I don't understand GR mpc's so I don't use them and instead use a RW Wick 3 for fugelhorn.